The Journal
Monday, December 4, 2006
By Ross Smith
A civil servant told council bosses their plans for loading bays could constitute "entrapment" because vehicles would be too wide to fit inside them.
The comment is the latest controversy to beset Sunderland Council's parking system.
The council wanted to create loading bays in Front Street in Concord, Washington, which were smaller than the legal width.
But a Department for Transport official warned them on November 6 this year: "Let's not forget there are elements of potential entrapment here - ie they almost entice lorries to use bays they cannot fit into, then they can fine them for not parking within the bay. Nice little earner!!"
Government Office North-East also told Sunderland Council on November 13 that a loading bay already in place in Holmside in the city would have to be extended to the full 2.7m.
It was originally just 1.5m wide, but the council did evtend it this year to 2m.
And it emerged that other loading bays in the city were already well before the legal minimum width.
But Sunderland Council chief executive Ged Fitzgerald said yesterday: "The council totally refutes any inference that there has been any form of entrapment in the context of decriminalised parking in the city of Sunderland."
The council asked for permission for a bay two metres wide - smaller than the legal 2.7m minimum.
The council said it had not yet created the bay in Front Street, and it would comply with regulations when it did.
The loading restrictions are being created in response to traders' concerns about parking. The problem in Holmside is understood to have been uncovered by an internal review of the city's parking problems, which reported last January.
It was carried out in response to a series of blunders over signs, lines and traffic orders which forced the authority to repay thousands of pounds in wrongly collected fines.
However, the council insists its overall regime remains legally robust.
It was buoyed in its claim by a parking adjudicator's decision last month to reject 26 out of 28 appeals taken by campaigner Neil Herron, who has fought against the system.
The council recently decided to take control of on-street parking back "in house" after staff from its contractor, NCP, were filmed making racist remarks in an undercover documentary.
Northumbria Police said they were "looking into" information about the parking system in Sunderland, but had not launched a formal investigation.
18 comments:
Once again, another fine mess by Sunderland Council.
On the subject of Front street in Concord this been a disgraces since the “Road Graffiti Department” played with it last time.
Double yellow lines start and end where they feel like, Parking bays are the wrong size, style and in one case totally the wrong shape, pedestrian crossings take you to an island in the middle of the road with no way out, and the list goes on and on.
On the matter of “entrapment” I feel I must agree with Councillor Fitzgerald and say that Sunderland Council have planned for no form of entrapment. After all I can not see anyone employed by Sunderland Council having the mental capacity to devise and carryout such an elaborate scheme, I think it quite simply a case of incompetence on behalf of Councillor Fitzgerald, and all at Sunderland Council.
well well mr baker you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about the council and the parking attendants you really are a strange little man and if i am not mistaken i do believe when i was working for ncp you tried to make a citizen arrest on a FEMALE attendant big man. leave it all to the real people who know what they are talking about such as neil heron. I think your just another wannabe Captain Green.
Let Neil Heron take on the council he knows a lot more
On the point of placing a traffic warden under citizen’s arrest you are in deed correct.
As I remember the incident in question, only 2 NCP staff were present, the PA and her supervisor, I was both present and courteous to the PA, however the supervisor only wanted to run away and hide, to quote you “big man”, fortunately for the people of Sunderland, I have been lead to believe he is spending Christmas where he belongs, on the dole queue.
Also if you have a point to make, please give YOUR name, I do not have to hide behind anonymity, if you are so much of a coward you feel you have to then perhaps you should crawl back under the stone that you came from and not make such comments.
One last point, please check your post Mr & Baker both have capital letters, perhaps if you paid more attention to detail you could get a proper job, not walking the street persecuting motorists, (Oh Sorry, I take it from your post, you where one of the ones who got sacked)
Welcome back,
(10:05 PM, Anonymous, Wednesday, November 22, 2006)
You're still not ready to step out from the shadows? Thought not.
Can I surmise from your comments that bigotry is also a trait of NCP PA's, seeing as you portray the 'FEMALE' PAs as somehow being lesser than the male PAs ?
bollocks! males will always be superior its natural
we invent everything dont we?
whats wrong with being a bigot? i am and also a xenophobe and proud of it as well!
so what each to their own?
tollerance and all that?
Steady on there your forehead and knuckles are clattering on the keyboard.
Keep going like that you won’t be able to put your smudge next to the BMP box come polling day.
I will be surprised if “Anonomous” votes at all.
Only possessing the same IQ as pond life, I think the task of walking and breathing at the same time is far more likely to take up his time than putting a cross on a ballot paper!
Firstly may i say i think you all need to grow up.
This is meant as a campaign to put right some wrongs in the council.
This is NOT a witch hunt against PA's, obviously reading on the texts the first anon is partly correct Mr Baker you do not need to put any PA under citizens arrest, this in my view constitutes false imprisonment whether it be male or female neither deserve that kind of treatment from you or any other member of the public, i was in Sunderland today and witnessed One PA being verbally abused and threatened with violence not clever all for doing his job.
Secondly this goes to Paul this is not a page to slag off anybody you like, reading between the lines i do not think that anon needs to give his or her name. Every body is entitled to there view whether be named or not i have nothing to do with NCP in fact i work for station taxi but i dont want to give my name, to quote Neil Heron (human rights, freedom of speech0
so Mr Baker if the sttendants are pond life and have no IQ then i can only sumise that it is people like you that find it justified to abuse verbally and physically a man or women doing there job.
As more evidence comes in it is becoming more and more apparent that this is more than crass incompetence on behalf of the Council Officers.
They are aware of the law.
They are fully aware of the Traffic Signs Regs. If not then they should not be in post.
The PAs have become convenient scapegoats for the Council and NCPs hierarchy.
Ask the question as to why NCP have not been sacked from the whole contract?
Did you know that they too (as well as the Department for Transport) simply relied on the reassurances of the Council that all the Traffic Orders were correct?
But they had serious concerns about the signs and lines and offered to pay for a full review.
PAs were put in difficult positions and were told to enforce even when I was offering evidence that what they were doing was unlawful.
I will soon be posting evidence that you will all need to share with friends and colleagues ...in the first instance, anyone who has been ticketed in Park Lane Village CPZ. This area includes Derwent Street, Back Derwent Street (N and S, Olive Street, Back Olive Street, Park Lane, Mary Street, Back Albion Place.
Anyone ticketed here has been fined illegally as the requirements for a Controlled Parking Zone (as Park Lane Village is) is that all streets are covered with restrictions ie. lines and bays. The loading bays at the above locations are all illegal thereby invalidating the whole CPZ. The Council are not volunteering refunds BUT if they do not then complaints will be prepared for the District Auditor (they cannot keep unlawfully derived income) and the Local Government Ombudsman (maladministration causing injustice).
In reply to the last “Anonymous” as I have already stated, I have never verbally or physically abused any PA.
However I must point out that ANY member of the public is quite within there rights to place an individual under “citizens arrest” providing the following criteria is met:
• They must perceive a crime is being committed
• They must not put themselves in a position of harm
• No member of the police is present.
As I perceived the crime of attempting to obtain moneys by deception was being committed, I placed the PA under citizen’s arrest until Northumbria Police arrived to take charge of the situation.
If NCP or any other organisation try and hide behind “I was only doing my duty”, then they are no better than the Nazi officers in the concentration camps, and if you chose to condone this kind of action, then sadly you deserve what will undoubtedly follow.
8:02 PM, Anonymous,
Freedom of speech, is a two way street you are entitled to say what you like and I'm entitled to say what I like in response, that is correct isn't it?
If someone wants to make outrageous or in fact foolish comments, I am under no obligation to stifle my own 'freedom of speech' by remaining silent.
I must agree with Paul,
I do not agree with what “Anonymous” has said, but I personally would defend his right to his opinion,
I wonder if he (or she) is of the same mind, or is he (or she) far too prejudicial to see the other point of view.
Mr. Herron - you are arguing the toss over a few measly inches. Must have something to prove, eh?
Anonymous,
please, remember it has to be centimetres now ;-) inches are now the work of the devil so say our EU overlords.
In Holmeside it was 1.2m ... more than a few inches AND a safety hazard. It is the height of stupidity to put loading bays 1.5m wide (vehicle width 2m -2.7m) behind the zig zags of a pelican crossing enticing vehicles to believe that they are parking legally ... in a loading bay ... but by doing so creating a safety hazard.
Would you wish to change your perspective then ... or perhaps after a child dies?
If we do not have to worry about a 'few' inches, then i'm sure the Council won't mind about a few minutes then will they?
What goes around, comes around; i'm sure anon isn't suggesting that there should be one law for the Councils and another for the rest of us is he?
I wonder if anyone can help me out here.
I am a lorry driver and parked at Cherwell Truck Stop last week for a few hours, which is free for 2 hours and £19 up to 24hrs. I arrived in the darkness and left in darkness, but couldn't find a machine or attendant to pay for the parking on leaving. This week I received a PCN for £50, to go up to £90 if not paid by a certain date.
I went back during daylight hours and found that the signs are situated on posts that are below HGV headlight level, so can't be seen in the dark, and that payment was to be made inside the truck stop.
Any suggestions as to what the height of signage has to be please.
Thanks.
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