Another PCN issued to the vehicle in a bay that does not correspond with the TRO.
The Parking Attendant objected when I said I was going to take a photograph of him issuing to my vehicle to be used as evidence despite me saying that I would allow him to turn away.
Despite him being a public official on council business he claimed it was, as the other PA did a couple of days ago, an infringement of his civil liberties.
He issued the PCN and then attempted to take his photograph of the PCN attached to the vehicle. I leaned on the car and politely asked him to apply the same rule and respect my 'civil liberties' and not take the photograph.
He put his camera away and walked off.
I will be posting the defence that was used in the successful NPAS appeal at this location...Frederick Street (West) Parking Places.
Bear in mind that if there is no valid TRO at this location then any monies collected from the Pay and Display machine will need to be refunded, as well as any money from PCNs.
Monday, November 13, 2006
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- Another fine mess
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8 comments:
You should have taken his photograph and let him or his employer take you to court to argue that his Civil Liberties have been infringed.
How the Law would argue that CCTV is not an infringement of those same liberties would make for some interesting reading.
Well if you used any common sense you would realise that these parking attendants have a job to do aswell. Take there photo put it on a website or better still stick them in front of a tv camera why not just line them up with there familys. Tell everybody there address and every person who ever had a ticket could go round there for tea and crumpets.
Get real if people parked in the right place we wouldnt need these people. i am disabled and going into town sometimes is a nightmare don't even get me started about trying to get in my own house near the hospital.
and i think you also need to get a few facts straight Mr Heron they are NOT council workers they work for a PRIVATE company NCP!!! not the council and as far as i was aware you had a problem with the council not the attendants......let them get on with there job and fight the council. keep badgering and taking there photos and sooner or later one of the attendants will get hurt......remember the lady who was stabbed??? THINK SAFETY FIRST
maybe we should tell all these people who you have upset where you live? or do you want privacy...ISNT IT THE SAME
Erm just the one successful NPAS case what happened to the rest as when i was sitting at the public meeting in Sunderland am sure you contested at least 20????
Did You lose these?
have you gave false hope?
time to stand up yourself Neil!!!
whats good for one is good for all is this not so? lets park where we like to collect tickets what about us taxis that want to park in the taxi bay OH YES we cant thanks to you! Lets park in the PND in frederick street and pay our £1 DAMN we cant your there FREE ALL DAY. GET A GRIP FIGHT THE TOP MEN NOT THE MONKEYS
I don't normally respond and just allow free commentary but I think there needs to be some clarification.
The Parking Attendants, and the Council employees, all know where I live ... they get my details (and those of any motorist) from the DVLA for every PCN. Private 'Parking' Companies can do the same for £2.50 a time.
If I have ever taken a photo of a PA for evidence purposes I have told them to turn away if they so wish. I do appreciate that they are simply 'doing as they are told' and have respected that on many occasions and in all my personal dealings with them I have always found them to be polite and courteous.
The Council is responsible for advising NCP where and where not to issue. NCP is responsible for telling its PAs.
The confusion has been caused by the Council's incompetence and the PAs been told not to tell the public.
The Taxi Rank mess could have been sorted out in 2003 when they found out about it. They said at the time that they would create a Traffic Order. THEY STILL HAVE NOT DONE SO.
Taxi drivers should be questioning the Council.
As for the PAs working for a Private Contractor ... yes they do, but they are patrolling the City on behalf of our Council. Commercial interests and local authorities do not go hand in hand especially when there is a profit incentive based on the number of PCNs issued.
As for parking illegally, you can only park illegally if there is a legal restriction and many thousands of people have been fined in this City where there are no legal restrictions and the Council know yet still keep ticketing ... as in the parking bays in Frederick Street.
The Loading Bays in Holmeside if you notice have just been remarked. I had to park in a bay and send the photos to the Department for Transport to bring this to their attention. The bays were only 1.5m wide ... the legal requirement is 2.7m !!!
This is not pedantic because what they are doing was dangerous. Firstly the bays were not wide enough for a car never mind a lorry but secondly, and more seriously, the Council put the bays behind the Pelican crossing zigzags forcing lorries to commit an endorseable offence.
The Department for Transport was horrified.
In response to 'Anonymous 2' ... Sunderland brought in a QC to help defend their position at the hearing...which is actually unprecedented. Ask yourself why.
There is to be a review of the Adjudicators decision because he made mistakes in fact and law and also allowed further evidence from Sunderland AFTER the hearing which he explicitly stated in the hearing that he would not do.
By the way, I am not parking for free in Frederick Street ... they are still sticking demands for £30 on the windscreen. However, keep your Pay and Display tickets' cos if the Traffic Order is not valid then they cannot keep that money either. They did the same round West Sunnisde some 6 months or so ago and FORGOT to tell the public that they had suspended the bays and still kept issuing tickets and still accepted pay and display.
If you are quite happy at this shoddy, shambolic situation continuing with illegal signs and missing TROs and Parking Attendants across the country issuing tickets by the thousand unlawfully then continue to park where you think is legal. I will continue to expose what I think is an unacceptable practice. The law is pedantic and applies to both the motorist and the public.
Perhaps if you had been in the office the day an elderly gentleman came in with his wife. They were distraught. They had parked where they thought was legal and were correct. However, in his panic the gentleman did not set his time clock correctly. His panic was the fact that he had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer and his life expectancy was measured in months...and had wrongly set his clock when he was going to the chemist to collect his medication. He immediately contacted the Council and was told that he had to write in. This he did with an explanation and even enclosed a letter from his Doctor confirming his cancer.
The Council, at the informal appeal stage, can apply discretion.
THEY REJECTED HIS APPEAL!!
He appealed formally and they rejected that too.
For a husband and wife who had never been in trouble in their lives this was very distressing. The Council continued to reject representations and I was preparing his appeal, along with others when we became aware that the Notice of Rejection issued by Sunderland was also flawed, and therefore not a legal document.
They came to me for help.
We challenged the Council.
The gentleman's PCN was cancelled, along with every other at the same stage along with dozens more of mine.
So, further to the 75,000 unlawfully worded Penalty Charge Notices the Council had issued they had also been issuing unlawful Notices of Rejection.
We rang to inform the gentleman that his PCN had been cancelled but sadly his wife was at his bedside in a Blackpool hospital where he had been taken after collapsing. Her relief that this weight had been taken off their shoulders was all too apparent. I do not know whether her husband ever regained consciousness.
Now I would ask ... is this the way that you want this Council to run this City?
Is this Council above the law?
A very good friend of mine went to his grave with a criminal conviction because of the actions of this Council. Did anyone complain when he was selling them bananas by the pound? But this Council sought fit to pursue Steve for breaching the Metrication Regulations.
...and what an ironic twist that the same legal department repsonsible for initiating that prosecution is the same legal department responsible for making the mistake of not converting the imperial measures in some of their Traffic Orders ... in breach of the very same Metrication Regulations as Steve Thoburn.
He sold 43p worth of bananas.
The Council have taken tens of thousands of pounds in fines in the lcations where their Traffic Orders are in imperial. Are they above the law?
Sorry for the long post but I think that a little clarification was needed.
Keep at it Neil.
These whingers are not getting the point that if it wasn't for people like you keeping authority on it's toes we would be no more than pawns for them to move around the board.
The authorities are all too quick to dish out regulation and fines (oops, 'penalties') and very much slower to look at their motives of empire building and self-aggrandisment.
Too many people out there unwilling to put their heads above the parapet I fear.
No doubt the whingers would soon enough use your freely given information tto their advantage though.
Ok Mr Heron i am ex-employee and i felt i had to get a few things straight. First of all in all of my dealing with you i found you to be polite however a little bit intimadating. The attendants do not go out there and ticket you for fun they are only doing what has been told by the council. which is issue anything in contravention they issue until told not to do so from the council not ncp!
Secondly the attendants do not receive any kind of incentives and for £5.60 an hour the shit they take is un called for. NEVER in sunderland has there been any target figures set.
And finally i agree with you if the COUNCIL makes mistakes its down to them but the attendants can not be held responsible for the councils actions, these attendant come in to work 8 till 6 and go home to familys. Familys they care and love however put those loved ones at risk and the wardens get protective, taking photos and identifying them is DANGEROUS and the attendants do not deserve this. I remember you telling me once and i quote "its not you i have the problem with its the council, and after this is over i will buy you all a drink. come on Mr Heron lay off the attendants and Fight the council please. it will make there job a lot easier and as for photos of the attendants well thats your choice. But ask yourself this if you did a job where abuse BOTH physical and verbal were part and parcel of every day life would you want your photo taking worrying where it was going to end up. There was One PA who was beaten and followed home from work and his home attacked with his wife and family inside all because his picture ended up on DADSPLACE.
I fully agree that the PAs have been put in an impossible position by the failings of the Council.
I have always found the PAs I have dealt with, in just about every case, to be polite, professional and courteous, and in recent days while gathering evidence of NCP issuing in a location where the Council know that they lost the case at NPAS I have offered the PAs the opportunity to step aside while I take a photo of the PCN attached to the vehicle.
As an ex-employee you will also recall that I asked you to write down the fact that the PCNs which you were issuing to my vehicle were being issued unlawfully. Indeed it must be close to 100, if not more, PCNs that have now been cancelled. I think you were told by NCP and the Council soemething different...that they were never cancelled.
I have always had an open door here should anyone wish to have sight of the missing TROs, the flaws in the paperwork, the illegal signs and lines and that offer still stands. It may be worth noting that a PA in Bournemouth, Arsenal Whittick, refused to issue PCNs in locations where he knew there were no valid TROs. He was threatened with the sack if he didn't continue issuing. His tribunal payout was £20k for unfair dismissal. The decision and the transcript is on www.thepeoplesnocampaign.co.uk
With regard to targets ... NCP and other companies are in the business to make profit and this does not sit comfortably with the requirements of local communities and businesses who simply want to work, trade and enjoy the city. Until we have root and branch reform of the whole of parking enforcement across the country we will continue to have have problems.
It never was and still isn't my aim to do anything other than expose the lawlessness of DPE.
I have said on a number of occasions that some of the PAs would actually make great on-street ambassadors for the City ... once DPE has been removed and the ethos is one of flexibility rather than Draconian enforcement.
My intention has never been to target those on the frontline especially since the impossible position that £5.60 per hour PAs have been put in due to the incompetence of others, some of whom are on six figure salaries is unforgiveable.
dear mr heron
iam that said ex employee thank you answering to my rant above. it is good to know you don not the attendants responsible and am sure the ones still there appreciate your honesty and professionalism.
however a lot of the verbal abuse that the PA receive either starts or ends with " mr heron says..." or i will take this up with mr heron it is good to know you do not condone this type of attitute
THANK YOU
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