Sunderland City Council appears to be close to admitting that the Decriminalised Parking Enforcement regime that they have created is a legal as well as an operational shambles.
This advert was placed in The Newcastle Chronicle yesterday (11th January 2007) but funnily enough, not the Sunderland Echo.
So, the City Solicitor and his Assistant need help ... with the complex legal processes of drafting Traffic Regulation Orders ....
But Leader of Sunderland City Council, Bob Symonds recently stated that the regime was legally robust and enforceable and that anyone parking on a yellow line would get a ticket!
He declined my offer of a walking tour of the City highlighting defective TROs, lines and signs.
But Bob, if the regime is lawful why the expense of another Solicitor?
But Bob, all the TROs are correct ... Sunderland City Council told the Department for Transport that they were in their DPE application in 2002 ... and since it came into force in 2003 over £3m has been extracted from the City's motorists pockets ... then why the need for another Solicitor?
But Bob, what if the Solicitor is being brought in to identify the hundreds of mistakes in the City's TROs ... will wholesale refunds begin then?
Nice to know another documentary is going to be aired ... again about Sunderland, again about the parking shambles. This time it is going national and looks like there are some serious revelations.
Upon reflection perhaps the best way to have dealt with this would have been to admit everything when first caught out and then invite the Department for Transport to assist with starting again and putting it right.
Instead the shambles gets bigger as do the implications.
33 comments:
hi
I wish you just let it lie in ref to the problems in sunderland as i know some traffic wardens and your campain is making there life a living hell as they are getting more abuse, death threats and warings from police to not to go in certin areas they are just doing there job and you are not making it any easier as they cannot go out down the town drinking anymore with out been noticed and threatend with violance and they familys are worried about they safty some of there kids are crying in case there daddy does not come home because of the trouble you have caused they are not just traffic wardens but people as well and just leave them alone
I think youll find it was the BBC that blew the lid on Sunderland PAs and NCP.
My campaign is against the Council issuing tickets illegally to my car and the fact that they deceived the Department for Transport in order to get Decriminalised Parking .... and the cash cow that has generated £3m+ for them.
They have attempted to cover up the evidence and deceive the public.
If any PAs wish to pass on any evidence, as some are already doing, they will be assured anonymity.
If they have concerns over being asked to issue where they know they shouldn't because the signs, lines or Traffic Orders are wrong then they should keep a record.
I strongly urge all PAs to speak to a solicitor and check out http://www.pcaw.co.uk/
Ask any of the PAs and they may reveal that they come to my office to ask for 'information.'
I am quite happy to make the evidence available to anyone on request as to where the Council have been 'economical'with the truth thereby putting the PAs in positions of compromise.
Please do not blame the messenger...the blame lies firmly at the door of Sunderland City Council and NCP Management.
Don't let it lie Neil, as an ex PA (not sacked in case someone is wondering) I would like to see the council pay for the mistakes they have made.
I believe you brought the BBC in to cover the councils short comings and not NCP, that was the BBC's decision.
The council have conveniently used it as a cover up, they constantly moved goalposts and conveniently stopped issuing tickets on the pier just before election time, they began the contract saying we could not issue on grassed areas as they were not highway but that soon changed as soon as they realised it could be worth a few bob.
You could also ask about the Mayors car, it got ticketed on a loading restriction but that was soon swept under the carpet, and we were told "Never issue to that vehicle". So when the Mayors driver parked in a loading bay to buy his dinner (Mayor nowhere to be seen) it was left whilst tickets were issued around it.
These are just a couple of instances and there are quite a few more, so come on Neil get the public there money back.
More and more evidence is being collated for the Police and any information would be appreciated.
If anyone has the photo of the Mayor's car with the instruction to leave it alone it would be useful to stand that story up. I do have a response from the Council that only one PCN was issued to that vehicle ... and it was cancelled.
Any areas where you were issuing where you, and management knew, that the signs or lines were not correct, or where the TROs were wrong or missing can be added to the bundles.
You will hear soon that people are only just starting to receive their Notice to Owner ... from alleged contraventions going back to June 2006.
Such a delay breaches the appellant's Human Rights ... and therefore they are all going to have to be dropped ... BUT, why take so long?
The answer is simple ... the previous NtO's were illegal and have had to be withdrawn. They will try and say that it is simply 'to improve the PCN' but this one is a sbig as the Date of Issue problem they had with 75,000 PCNs.
Everyone will be entitled to their money back ... the quicker that Sunderland realise that holding their hands up will be the cheapest option the better.
Meanwhile, I would advise all current and ex-PAs to seek legal advice and keep a notebook of anything that they can recollect in relation to their duties that they were concerned with.
Oh dear Oh dear, I'm most concerned to learn of the problems the traffic wardens (PA's) are having in going out for a pint. Might I suggest that they don't go in to the local boozer wearing their uniforms, then they might not be noticed, or is it as we have already seen on the BBC that they like a pint whilst on duty?
But do the attendants who said they went for a pint deserve to be persecuted for something said to people they should be able to trust!
If every employee in this country was disciplined for something said in confidence within a group of friends/colleagues then the dole queue would be an awful lot longer.
Is the BBC's documentary not an invasion of the PA's human rights?
I think in many cases the PAs are as much victims as the motoring public.Unfortunately the BBC programme concentrated on the behaviour of the PAs as opposed to that of the Council.
The Council have behaved deploriably and it is them who should suffer the consequences. I would like to beleive that many PAs feel guilty about what they do and would like to see a change in the system whereupon they can hold their heads up high. We need them to come forward and tell us about the Council's behaviour, we know many are holding back.
How can the BBC documentary be an invasion of their human rights, after seeing the documentary most of the PA’s would appear to be animals and not humans, are we now giving “human rights” to cats and dogs as well?
Only one of these PA's was filmed whilst carrying out there duties in a public place, all others were filmed within the office or backyard. If they are animals as you say then there must be hours of footage of all of them on the streets, I don't believe there is as the BBC would have delighted in showing it.
Nobody told these PA's they were about to be filmed, and there lies the breach of human rights!
Would you like someone coming into your lunch room and filming you saying anything and everything and then putting it on national telly, I doubt it very much.
Woof,
Has sombody stolen your bone? or has a nasty PA put a parking ticket on your new lead
I'm sorry I am not sure what you mean by that comment, but it's probably got something to do with a lack of brains!!!!!!!!!
Only nasty people think PA's are nasty, just realise these people are earning a living, most have families, yet you delight in having a go at them. I believe I am correct in saying that only 1 attendant was racist on tape, and 1 commented about disabled but in your eyes every single one is still the same.
None of this post is about the PA's, the council made the mistakes in the first place they should pay.
Take that on board and grow up!
Meow,
I also believe that the Nazi officers in World War 2 were only doing there job. (And before anyone complains, I would like to apologise to the families of any Nazi officer reading this for comparing them to NCP PA & council officials)
well this has certainly got some peoples back up, neil herron complaint is with the council not the PA the bbc filmed PA in there private place of work 1 pa sacked for being racist 1 pa sacked for being a tit and drinking on duty 1 pa sacked for disabled comments 4 managers sacked for being incompetent1 pa sacked for calling it and i quote "paki land" which then leaves all the others not filmed does this not prove that they are the innocnt party caught up in web of deceit (council) and stupidity (ncp management) in my view if they were not shown they have done no wrong am guessing the bbc would jump at the chance of showing every PA that was in the wrong, as for comparing them to nazi you need to sort out your views. PA have a job to do not every body can fall into adencent job no matter how hard you try
There is more evidence coming in from current and ex-PAs as to where PCNs were issued unlawfully and where the Council and NCP were aware that there were problems with the signs, lines or TROs.
If anyone knows of any instances please let me know and it can be checked out.
neilherron@btconnect.com
but you dont get the pitcure in ref to the pa job an ncp as a pa i have talked to the get the team breifing in the moring sent over from the councail the night before and it does not tell tell them anything thats illegal they ask managment and they ask the councail and all they say everying is in place and everything is in order with lines and signs so ncp is in the dark most of the time as well as not just the pa on street as the councail is is keeping everyone in the dark as well they even dont know when the councail is taking over the contract so they are worried what is going to happen to them and the jobs and what there role is when they get took over is any news on that as well would be a help so i can pass that on as it will happen like everything else they will find out in the local paper before they are told.
After reading the last few statements, I must agree than not everyone can get a “decent job”
If I only had the same grasp of the English language, and a lack of ability to write clear and concise documents, then I too may be forced to walk the streets filling in parking tickets.
I am only grateful that I managed to leave the British education system wish a better level of intelligence than a seven year old!
After reading the last few statements, I must agree than not everyone can get a “decent job”
If I only had the same grasp of the English language, and a lack of ability to write clear and concise documents, then I too may be forced to walk the streets filling in parking tickets.
I am only grateful that I managed to leave the British education system wish a better level of intelligence than a seven year old!
By counting up the number of pa's someone said were sacked I count 8. Does anyone know the actual number of staff that were sacked and there positions within NCP.
They only had 2 managers!!!!!!!
And unless I am mistaken they have never declared the staff that were finished.
By counting up the number of pa's someone said were sacked I count 8. Does anyone know the actual number of staff that were sacked and there positions within NCP.
They only had 2 managers!!!!!!!
And unless I am mistaken they have never declared the staff that were finished
NUMBER OF PA SACKED LET ME HELP YOU OUT THERE 1 SUPERVISOR 1 SENIOR PA 1 MANAGER ON (ALLEGEDLY) SICK 1 CONTRACT MANAGER (FORCED SICKNESS)AND 4 ON STREET PA ALL SACKED THAT IN TOTAL IS 8.
PA GO THROUGH WEEKS OF TRAINING TO UNDERSTAND THE PARKING REGIME SET UP BY THE COUNCIL, NO MEMBER OF STAFF KNOWS WHEN THE COUNCIL WILL BE TAKING OVER THEY WERE TOLD UPTO 6 MONTHS. ALL PA HAVE A JOB TO DO AND FOR £5.80 ITS PEOPLE LIKE THE ANON THAT MAKE THERE LIFE MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT THE PEOPLE WHO THINK ITS FUN TO GIVE ABUSE TO THESE PEOPLE WALKING THE STREETS BUT HIDE BEHIND THERE CAR DOORS OR WIND DOWN THERE WINDOWS. PEOPLE WHO THINK ITS GREAT TO GIVE ABUSE THEN WALK AWAY OR COMPLAIN WHEN THEY GET ABUSE BACK. OR EVEN BETTER PEOPLE WHO ASSAULT THE PA THEN GET TAKEN TO COURT THEN CRY IN THE DOCK OR DENY ANY WRONG DOING. 5 ASSAULTS ON PA IN THE LAST 3 MONTHS 2 HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY. THE POLICE ARE NOW TAKEN A MORE SERIOUS APPROACH TO THESE PROBLEMS THANKFULLY.
HOWEVER I FIRMLY BELIEV THE PEOPLE WITH THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WITH THE PA HAVE PROBABLY ALREADY HAD PARKING TICKETS IN THE PAST.
IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS 78% OF TICKETS ISSUED WERE PAID 12% WENT TO NPAS AND 10% WERE IGNORED.THIS PROVES THAT NOT EVERYBODY HAS PROBLEMS WITH PA.
ALL POCKET BOOKS, PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BY PAS FOR PCN AND TEAM BRIEFINGS ARE AVAILABLE VIA FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT.
£5.80 for a PA, I hope that’s a month, after all that’s all the bigoted sods are worth.
If there has been 5 “alleged” assaults on PA’s , but only 2 convictions, am I to believe that 60% of allegations made by PA’s are not in fact true and can not hold up to legal scrutiny, if so then that’s about the same ratio as your bloody parking tickets!
I only hope that your parents are proud of what you do, persecuting motorists and stealing from the public in general is not something I would like my children to do, but it takes all sorts.
As far as taking weeks of training to learn “to walk the streets”, I would like to give you a tip, put one foot in front of the other, and try not to collide with anything, also don’t stand on street corners, the only other profession who call themselves “street walkers” may see you as competition.
Are you sure about the PA's that were sacked, SENIOR PA WAS NEVER SACKED, So I can only presume that the information people are getting is incorrect.
well you sure are a pratt if you read the above comment its £5.80 as for bigoted sods your the tough guy hiding behind a screen and some writing GROW UP!
and it says nothing about weeks of training to walk the streets it says learn the parking regime set up by the council so not only are you a big tough guy or girl but you cant read either dear oh dear!! as for being proud of there job they may well be as i dont believe you would have any idea or inclination how to stand up or put up with that kind of abuse.
people like you make everything ten times worse pratt.
as for the senior parking attendant who obviously does not want anyone to think they were sacked (comment above) then you should also inform the council of this!!
The senior PA was never sacked or disciplined - that is a statement of fact. Nobody knows what has happened to the contract manager, the support manager is still employed, 1 supervisor and 5 PA's were dismissed.
Now we have the truth.
Can we get back to the case in point which is the council and there lack of regard for the rules and regulations. Stop having a go at PA's for doing what is probably the worst job in the world.
Please keep any criticism constructive...otherwise posts will be deleted.
Anyone who is employed as a PA who is concerned that their activity is unlawful may raise these concerns at www.pcaw.co.uk where anonymity will be protected.
There is no ceiling on compensatory awards for whistleblowers.
However, there is a duty of care even for a PA. If you are repeatedly told that YOUR actions are unlawful by a member of the public and you fail to act by raising the concerns in writing with management then it will be YOUR actions which will involve the initial complaint.
We now have a third adjudicator confirming that the TRO for where I park in Frederick Street is wrongly drafted. Sunderland's request for a review of that decision was rejected ... yet YOU continue to issue to my vehicle. This is harassment and every PCN is being added to the evidence bundle being handed to Northumbria Police.
I have repeatedly urged PAs to take their own legal advice. There can be really no excuse if they have failed to do so. In light of what has gone before it may be prudent to do so. If everyone casts their minds back some 12 - 18 months ago I was repeatedly stating that 'your actions are unlawful.' I do believe at the time the PAs were told that the Council was right and Herron was wrong.
I bet the Council and NCP now wish that they had not been so arrogant when an offer was made to the two of them to sit down and see where their regime was flawed.
but mr heron you only in it for fame to get your name noticed so you can go coucail mayer postion or the euperan paliment you dont care about the pas on street as long as you get your own way and cause more trouble you kep blaming it on the pas for isuing the tickets but they only following orders as you well know that and if every peron parked in sunderland anywere they want with getting a ticket they be up roar as business wont able to get delvereys as people would be parked in steets were there is majior bus way or one way streets and they wont be able to get past just drop the suject and an decent job instead of picking on incent people and what would you do if fredick street became free for all parking would go to all the business in the street and advise them why people dont go there shops as cannot get parking near by and refeace to the abusie pa get its try as the peron who i know as nearly been hit by a car as rode on the path to try and get him as he was just a pa and because of your campain
Heard of the phrase 'shooting the messenger?'
It is the Council who has created the problem which has been compounded by NCP's refusal to take qualified legal advice on the legality of what they are being asked to enforce.
I am not doing it 'to get my picture in the papers' or 'to become Mayor.'
I am doing it to expose the illegality and criminality of a local authority's behaviour ... the same local authority who persecuted Steven Thoburn for 'breaking the law' by selling a pound of bananas.
If you think that the hypocrisy that they have exhibited is acceptable and beyond challenge then I am disappointed. One day the law that they break could have a direct effect on you ...are you saying you would roll over and accept it?
I think you need to take a step back from this and have a moment's quiet contemplation ....
one little guy taking on a supposed competent, well funded and substantial local authority with an extensive legal team with access to quaslified legal opinion from a QC; a private company with a multi million pound turnover generating profits which run into hundreds of millions, access to the best lawyers, fully trained management and extensive training regimes ... both struggling to act correctly, struggling to issue PCNs correctly, management and operational failings exposed on not one but dozens of occasions in the press and media, the flawed operation the subject of THREE national documentaries ... and you are making out that it is my fault?
Get real.
Take legal advice as to what the position will be should YOU continue to issue PCNs where YOU know that issuing is unlawful.
There is enough evidence in the public domain for you to check.
You can have access to any information that I have ... you simply need to ask.
You can have 15 minutes free consultation with a solicitor ... you do get time off, so there is no excuse.
You can call the number on www.pcaw.co.uk and seek advice there.
In this instance ignorance is not an excuse.
If the consequence of Sunderland's failure to create legal traffic orders is that people park free then it is a problem for them to address with some urgency. The Police still have powers to remove vehicles that cause an obstruction.
This will not be over until the matter is before the courts.
Heard of the phrase 'shooting the messenger?'
It is the Council who has created the problem which has been compounded by NCP's refusal to take qualified legal advice on the legality of what they are being asked to enforce.
I am not doing it 'to get my picture in the papers' or 'to become Mayor.'
I am doing it to expose the illegality and criminality of a local authority's behaviour ... the same local authority who persecuted Steven Thoburn for 'breaking the law' by selling a pound of bananas.
If you think that the hypocrisy that they have exhibited is acceptable and beyond challenge then I am disappointed. One day the law that they break could have a direct effect on you ...are you saying you would roll over and accept it?
I think you need to take a step back from this and have a moment's quiet contemplation ....
one little guy taking on a supposed competent, well funded and substantial local authority with an extensive legal team with access to quaslified legal opinion from a QC; a private company with a multi million pound turnover generating profits which run into hundreds of millions, access to the best lawyers, fully trained management and extensive training regimes ... both struggling to act correctly, struggling to issue PCNs correctly, management and operational failings exposed on not one but dozens of occasions in the press and media, the flawed operation the subject of THREE national documentaries ... and you are making out that it is my fault?
Get real.
Take legal advice as to what the position will be should YOU continue to issue PCNs where YOU know that issuing is unlawful.
There is enough evidence in the public domain for you to check.
You can have access to any information that I have ... you simply need to ask.
You can have 15 minutes free consultation with a solicitor ... you do get time off, so there is no excuse.
You can call the number on www.pcaw.co.uk and seek advice there.
In this instance ignorance is not an excuse.
If the consequence of Sunderland's failure to create legal traffic orders is that people park free then it is a problem for them to address with some urgency. The Police still have powers to remove vehicles that cause an obstruction.
This will not be over until the matter is before the courts.
yes and its you killed mr thourben by pushing him and the met campin to the limit and you just doing it for revenge on the council to cover for you actions and his death
Very unfair and unjust comment. If you are a PA then you are one of the ones who should no longer be employed, if you have been sacked already then you probably deserved it!
Mr Thoburn never hurt anyone, and I am sure that Mr Herron has never been questioned about murder, which is what you are implying. Mr Thoburn sold bananas by the pound and was prosecuted by Sunderland Council who enforced traffic orders in yards, who is in the wrong. Only 1 can be innocent. Either both are guilty under the laws governing metric measurements, or Sunderland council have acted improperly in prosecuting mr thoburn. Black and White, or it should be, so grow up and keep your comments sensible (oh and learn how to spell for gods sake!)
Steve Thoburn was his own man and a very successful businessman. Your very misguided comments are offensive, incorrect and highly defamatory.
I will offer you one opportunity to retract them and apologise.
If there is no apology forthcoming I will be writing to your ISP (your IP address has been captured) with reasons requiring disclosure of your identity and then take the necessary legal action.
Post a Comment